Proposed Updated Reactive Slab Leak Protocol

2/28/2022 28 Comments

Proposed Updated Reactive Slab Leak Protocol

The HOA has issued proposed updated Reactive Slab Leak Protocol. If adopted, it replaces the existing 2017 Homeowner slab leak protocol. The Blog has reviewed the changes proposed in the new updated Reactive Slab Leak Protocol.

Below is listed the Key changes from the existing slab leak protocol:

The HOA/Patrol services must be contacted by phone. There is no requirement that the HOA responds in a timely manner, no audit trail/emails, etc. to determine if the HOA was contacted in a ‘reasonable time’. If you do not contact them in a reasonable time, the HOA will not pay any costs associated with a slab leak.
If you have not been home for 7 days and the water was on. The HOA will not pay any costs associated with a slab leak.

Homeowners are no longer allowed to contact any service to determine if the problem is a slab leak or another problem. The Homeowner must wait for the HOA’s Leak Detection Service to arrive and determine if there is a slab leak. If you do not follow this procedure the HOA will not pay any costs associated with a slab leak.

If you do not provide the HOA’s plumber/Leak detection service with “timely” access to your property the HOA will not pay any costs associated with a slab leak. “Timely” has not been defined.

If the HOA determines that you have not given them timely access to the slab leak the homeowner can also be fined plus the HOA may legally gain access and you property. The homeowner will be responsible for all attorney costs associated with gaining entry.

If you have a slab leak the HOA will no longer pay for a water extraction service to remove any standing water and setup dry down equipment. This is now the responsibility of the homeowner.

The updated slab leak protocol does not state if the HOA or the homeowner is responsible for arranging and managing the plumbing re-route. If it is the HOA, they no longer will be responsible for the quality of the work being done.

This update will be approved as it is written unless you write the HOA at HOA@desertprincesscc.com and the board members before it is approved at the March Board meeting.

Board members can be reached at the following emails:

pfwebb@telus.net, terriswartz.dp@gmail.com, holowachukr@shaw.ca,
lingold7096@sbcglobal.net, billbergstrom.dp@gmail.com, backstrom@berkeley.edu,
mark@310.net

The Impact of the changes are:

The HOA is pushing more responsibility on the shoulders of the Homeowners.
The HOA has increased the number of ways that Slab Leak reimbursement can be eliminated.
The HOA continues to eliminate benefits that have always been available in the past.

The Blog would like to know your thoughts.

28 Comments

Tom Rosa

2/28/2022 04:27:51 pm

A basic tenant of organizations ( HOA , Heathcare, Insurance ) is to provide LESS coverage to the harmed. Now our lovely bunch of elected dolts have chosen to possibly make it more expensive for the harmed to get their slab leak fixed. Words like " timely" and "reasonable" are ambiguous for a reason. Can you guess what that reason is.......... Yep to hopefully minimize the liability of the HOA. Im so glad Peter and Norn and the other dwarfs have our backs. Rather than take a HARD look at cutting expenses and other ways to balance the budget. They want to offer less to the loyal homeowners. Im not shocked

Fed Up Resident

2/28/2022 04:52:46 pm

Do you actually think name calling "dolls & drarfs" is mature? Why do you continue these ongoing rants and attacks? Do you enjoy causing controversy, division and drama for the residents of our community. I think you would be much happier if you lived somewhere else. Don't you agree?

Joan

3/1/2022 03:07:39 pm

You need not worry "Fed Up Resident", the majority of the Board of the HOA do a plenty fine job causing controversy, division and drama.
Mr. Rosa is NOT the problem.

William A Hall

2/28/2022 05:47:46 pm

I had a slab leak under the guest room tub 2 year's ago. I had Canadians renting at the time and could have lost 6 weeks rent! It was on presidents day and I called the HOA office and did not get answer! My rental agency sent in the Leak Detectors and they gave me immediate choices! They dug under the tub and found problem. I had to hire them to fix luckily and the HOA eventually paid for the break 6 weeks later! They never gave me any advice which I wanted. Chose not to reroute pipes because of wall and tile damage. But maybe not a permanent fix! I know both condos on either side had breaks under floors and had carpets and tiles replaced years past! So am worried about the future as seems to be a problem with pipes in concrete floors!!!

Judge

3/1/2022 08:16:35 am

This whole complex is old. Does anyone no when was the last time they checked the systems?

Joan

3/1/2022 03:11:51 pm

Probably never. And, they would rather spend the money on vanity projects. Such as a patio extension for the restaurant that is so far from packing a crowd, takes over 45 min. for food, frequent incorrect orders, with some of the staff that has no customer service and that needs to be closed and leased out to someone who knows how to run a restaurant.
Or, "beautifying" the landscaping that they can't take care of.
Those things come first. Before infrastructure.
Fall in line and put your head back in the sand.

Thomas Purcell

3/1/2022 08:21:47 am

Homeowners are whining about the rising costs of HOA dues, and yet when the board finds fees, costs or repairs to be paid for by the individual homeowner the moaning, groaning and bitching gets louder. What’s up with that?

I don’t like the rising costs of HOA dues anymore than anyone else. Requiring homeowners to take responsibility of issues that involve their personal homes is one way to keep costs down. Personally, I don’t want to pay for any of my neighbors’ slab leak and that’s what you’re asking me to do.

I don’t know what it costs to fix a slab leak, but if there are several of these a year throughout the community, it could drain our already low reserves.

As opposed to complaining in a public forum or reverting to childish name calling, I suggest doing something more constructive. Call your insurance carrier and ask slab leaks are covered. Take personal responsibility. Prepare for such incidences.

I encourage anyone to find another 27 hole golf course, country club/resort that offers as much as the DPCC that includes coverings the costs associated with slab leaks under privately owned homes or condos.

We can’t have it both ways. We can’t expect the HOA to cover all of the expenses AND keep dues low. It doesn’t work that way. To keep dues low the board must find cost saving measures - this is reasonable.

While we’re at it - I find it curious that to respond to this blog we must identify ourselves; however the creator, main complainer and pot stirrer remains anonymous. If you require us reveal our identity you should too. If you are unable to do that, maybe you should keep your comments as private as you do your identity a secret.

One more thing - many of you have a very warped idea of what your elected officials can do. They just can’t walk in and demand changes. There are CCRs that guide the community, as well as laws that dictate what can be done. Having served on an HOA board for 3.5 years as well as being staff to a professional membership association, elected board members make decisions that are best for the entire community. You have asked they keep dues low. They are doing what they can.

I know the type. They complain the loudest but never have time to serve on a committee, run for a board position or do the appropriate homework to really understand what is involved.

joan

3/1/2022 03:15:16 pm

The HOA was awarded over $2 MILLION dollars for the slab leaks. Not sure where you are getting that you would have to pay for your neighbors slab leak repair. That is not correct info you have. The HOA was supposed to have kept the $2 million safe. It should have been kept in a reserve fund for those repairs it was intended for. It was never intended for the board to co-mingle the funds and use in place of it's primary reserve fund. And, that my friend, is exactly what they did.
SMH

Michelle

3/1/2022 06:22:00 pm

Joan, you are absolutely right. I was on the Board when we received that $2.4M as a result of the lawsuit launched years ago to address the devastating slab leaks. A Board majority, in an open HOA meeting voted to segregate those funds for the purpose for which they were intended,. This vote was the result of a motion tabled by two members, a motion prompted by fear that a future Board would co-mingle those funds with the general reserve fund, which was even at that time, woefully underfunded. So to your point to Mr. Purcell, unless and until the time comes those pipe funds are totally depleted, owners are not paying for these slab leaks from our HOA monthly dues.

Ann

3/1/2022 03:18:03 pm

You want to talk about CC&Rs and laws, etc?! Ok, let's talk about that then. Let's talk about how our own ByLaws state that a board member may only run a total of 2 terms. Yet, how we now have a board member (Russ H), who was just re-elected to a THIRD term. Let's talk about those "laws" Mr. Thomas.

Terry

3/1/2022 05:38:12 pm

Thomas, I think you should follow your own advice and do the appropriate homework so that you understand what is going on. You of course did not follow your own advice. Had you done so you would have easily uncovered the fact that a lawsuit against the original contractor for DP resulted in a settlement for several million dollars. The funds were and are to be used for the express purpose of repairing and paying for slab leaks. There has been lots of slab leaks based on faulty plumbing installations. The funds do not belong to the HOA. They belong to the homeowners. You are correct about the reserves. They are on the edge but that has nothing to do with slab leaks. Our leadership can not stop spending money we don't have. Gee, if they could just get their hands on some of the slab money by insuring homeowners don't get it first.

Mandy

3/1/2022 08:23:08 pm

Thomas there are many of us who would love to serve on a committee. The board Presidents (Hank/Peter) and committee chairperson decide who will be on the committees. The rest of board just nod their heads and vote. Have you noticed the same names show up on the committees year after year and married couples on the same committees? Maybe it is time to start fresh, get rid of the people who have served for 4 plus years and allow other homeowners to be selected for committees. Fresh faces, new ideas. Looks like to me it is my right to complain!

Anonymous

3/2/2022 09:13:35 am

Mandy, I posted on this very issue 0n Feb. 22nd under the concern about reinstating in-person HOA meetings. The committees are consistently populated by the same group of friends of the Board members, many have been around for years. Take the FAC for instance. It's almost like these people have an expectation to serve for life!

Several residents and their spouses serve on multiple committees, eliminating any chance other owners may have to offer their talents and ideas to our community.

It would be interesting to know how many applications for committee membership the HOA receives, but, oh yeah, that would require the Board to allow owners access to an open, transparent and fair selection process. That notion would also upset the order of their own personal fiefdoms.

Terry

3/1/2022 01:24:18 pm

When we bought property here at DP years ago, we were made aware of the possibity of slab leaks based on faulty installations. We were also made aware of the lawsuit and the sizeable money award that was set aside to cover slab leaks for owners.That was one of the material facts upon which we made the decision to purchase at DP.

Over time the procedures involving receiving money from the fund for slab leaks has become
more and more onerous. It is obvious that the changes suggested by leadership to deny payment to condo and villa owners is likely motivated by their preference to use that money as their slush fund, perhaps to augment the reserve fund when their spending money we don't have catches up to them.

This is just another attempt by leadership to increase revenues by targeting homeowners. This includes increasing fines, requiring rental owners to pay unjustified fees, denying services, and now denying funds for slab leaks from a fund that was set up EXPRESSLY for that purpose.

We have huge operational shortfalls that could be eliminated. We all know how to stop the bleeding. Bleeding homeowners is not the answer.

Braden

3/1/2022 03:25:09 pm

You are absolutely correct Terry.
All I can say is this. If I have a slab leak and the HOA does not cover it. I shall sue. Period. End of story. The HOA was supposed to have to set aside the money it was awarded for this for the homeowners. Period. End of Story.
The HOA is just asking for trouble with these additional hoops to jump through. This even possibly impacts property values as it may discourage buyers. If I sell and I experience that, I will sue the HOA for that too.
Sorry to say it, but at this point, this HOA has done so much damage, it may very well deserve it and maybe they will finally learn their lesson by such.

karen

3/3/2022 01:04:49 pm

I have contacted the HOA regarding slab leaks, trying to get facts about how many homes are potentially effected, how many have been fixed. And what part of the home is being impacted. All of it? Bathrooms, Kitchen? all of the above? Can anyone give me this information? I own a villa and prior to doing new floors i called to say if a fix needs to be done I want it done now. No one would help with any information.

Dave Grant

3/7/2022 06:30:58 am

Regarding "Slab Leaks" it is my understanding that term is in reference to a problem created by the builder of some of the properties at Desert Princess when substandard materials were used in the construction.
It is also my understanding that when those builder defects became apparent a settlement was made by the builder who deposited a substantial sum "IN TRUST"" into the coffers of the Desert Princess, which monies were only to be used to fix those building defects as they came to light. There were no conditions applied to those reimbursements if they were found to be builder defects related.
It also my understanding that at some point some or all those monies which had been held "IN TRUST" to repair the said building defects, were misappropriated from that trust fund
and used for other purposes. This of course was totally illegal and did not absolve the Desert Princess of the responsibility to reimburse and correct the said building defects as they arise.
The Desert Princess may not unilaterally impose any conditions on the reimbursement of the funds set aside to repair those building defects beyond those set up at the time of the deposit of those funds.
Is it to be assumed that all the current Board members have already received their reimbursements and had their slab leaks fixed or live in properties that are not in danger of having a slab leak?
Would it make sense for the Desert Princess custodians (The Board) to jeopardise the financial wellbeing of The Desert Princess by embroiling it in legal expenses, with homeowners who suffer slab leaks, which would surely follow if it tries to impose the lunacy proposed and would surely lose.
In proposing these new rules it would appear that the board is doing everything it can to be combative against those who need their help in a time of great distress.
The question is why?
Who are these people that want to make life a hell for those who need help, help that was already there to be accessed before it misappropriated by the Board.

karen

3/7/2022 11:58:58 am

Dave Grant, thank you for the thought full and insightful response. Any idea how many "fixes" have been made and what the balance of the 2.4 million is still left? Why are we having to go to homeowners for this information and its not for all to see? This is one of the non transparent problems I have relating to Desert Princess now. How in the world has this community become so messed up? It makes me want to sell, well one of the many reasons, It sucks as we bought for retirement, are close and now all is chaos. Makes me sad.

Don

3/7/2022 01:00:16 pm

Question: 'How did it get so messed up?"
Answer: Messed up people on the board, that's how.

Dave Grant

3/7/2022 07:07:04 am

Sent to all Board members March 7 2022

Hello all,

Please remember that you are all fiduciary Board members.

Nonprofit board directors only have three fiduciary responsibilities, and each of them is very important. It’s critical for board directors to practice them in word and in deed, and to make sure that their fellow board directors do as well. The three fiduciary responsibilities of all board directors are the duty of care, the duty of loyalty and the duty of obedience, as mandated by state and common law.

It’s vitally important that all board directors understand how their duties fall into each category of fiduciary duties. Not understanding fiduciary duties — or not being well-informed about them — doesn’t relieve board directors from any obligations or liabilities they may face if they fail to fulfill these important duties.

Board directors are called fiduciaries because they are legally responsible for managing a nonprofit entity’s assets. Board directors are responsible for overseeing funds from philanthropists, donors and grant-makers, and making sure that the funds are being used for their intended purpose in financially supporting the organization. Board directors who diligently perform their fiduciary duties responsibly protect the organization’s reputation, which also falls into the category of a fiduciary duty.

Regarding "Slab Leaks" it is my understanding that term is in reference to a problem created by the builder of some of the properties at Desert Princess when substandard materials were used in the construction.
It is also my understanding that when those builder defects became apparent a settlement was made by the builder who deposited a substantial sum "IN TRUST"" into the coffers of the Desert Princess, which monies were only to be used to fix those building defects as they came to light. There were no conditions applied to those reimbursements if they were found to be builder defects related.
It also my understanding that at some point some or all those monies which had been held "IN TRUST" to repair the said building defects, were misappropriated from that trust fund
and used for other purposes. This of course was totally illegal and did not absolve the Desert Princess of the responsibility to reimburse and correct the said building defects as they arise.
The Desert Princess may not unilaterally impose any conditions on the reimbursement of the funds set aside to repair those building defects beyond those set up at the time of the deposit of those funds.
Is it to be assumed that all the current Board members have already received their reimbursements and had their slab leaks fixed or live in properties that are not in danger of having a slab leak?
Would it make sense for the Desert Princess custodians (The Board) to jeopardise the financial wellbeing of The Desert Princess by embroiling it in legal expenses, with homeowners who suffer slab leaks, which would surely follow if it tries to impose the lunacy proposed and would surely lose.
In proposing these new rules it would appear that the board is doing everything it can to be combative against those who need their help in a time of great distress.
The question is why?

The three fiduciary responsibilities of all board directors are the duty of care, the duty of loyalty and the duty of obedience, as mandated by state and common law.

Dave Grant

Joan

3/7/2022 01:01:04 pm

Thank you Dave Grant!

Dave Grant

3/7/2022 03:53:56 pm

Hello all, Karen and Joan,

do not despair, I have copied my thoughts to each Board member thinking that they may be misinformed, or not informed at all, as to their responsibilities as Board members and their liabilities if they should break the law in that regard.

I would think that the Board will now see the light with regard to this matter, and actually repair the damage done by earlier Boards who were responsible for the misappropriation of the "Slab Leak" repair monies. To do otherwise would make them accessories after the fact and be held equally legally liable for that misappropriation.

We should also thank those Board members for attempting to help run our Desert Princess, should we also give them the benefit of the doubt if some of them have been led astray by one or two members whom it appears have a warped sense of right and wrong.

Perhaps ask Jerry Storage, our man at the top, if he will supply the information you are looking for regarding Slab Leak expenditures to date. Ther has to be file on that issue. Please let us know what his response is.
"Jerry Storage" <jstorage@desertprincesscc.com>

Dave Grant

Craig Robinson

3/10/2022 08:50:28 pm

The HOA cannot relieve itself of responsibility outlined in Article VII of our CC&R's by creating a rule that in opposition to our CC&R's. The HOA is responsible to repair all water leaks in foundations, inside walls, and common areas, regardless of the rule, whether proposed or already adopted.

For many of you who were not here at the time of the lawsuit, the defect primarily is that the copper line was not properly wrapped to prevent corrosion as required by code. Although I could be wrong, the judgment was not "IN TRUST" as many of you claim. It was put, and appropriately, into our general fund and used accordingly. In other words, it is HOA money to be used as the Board deems appropriate. The idea was and is that there aren't enough foundation leaks each year to make repair more than a yearly budget item. This was fully explained at an annual meeting years ago. It just seemed stupid to leave the money in an account and not use it as required by other maintenance items. Just as stupid as the Board thinking that it can change our CC&R's by passing a rule.

It is really easy to sit behind a computer and criticize others anonymously. How about all of you using your full name on this blog, especially when you accuse someone of a crime? When you stand in a fiduciary relationship, your misappropriation of money is theft, even if the misappropriation is temporary. A 2 million dollar theft is State Prison time. You aren't stupid, and Board isn't either. There has to be a better way to get the correct information than just accusing someone of criminal activity.

Terry

3/11/2022 02:38:02 pm

Craig, I believe you are misinformed about the so called slab leak funds. The acting board at the time wanted the money placed in the general fund. However several of the directors at the time forced a public vote on the issue. The money ended up being placed in a separate account and not the general fund. After the settlement, the plumbing defect became a known material defect. The known remedy for the plumbing defect was the fund set aside expressly for that purpose. The board is inviting legal action by attempting to unilaterally change what will and will not be paid for involving a covered slab leak here at DP. Had the funds been placed in the general fund the money would have been exhausted years ago. The information about the placement of the "slab leak funds" comes to me directly from the mouth of one of the directors who forced the vote.

Craig Robinson

3/11/2022 06:09:36 pm

Terry:
There is an entirely different meaning to the words "In Trust" and in a separate account. Placing the funds in a separate account is not the same as being "In Trust", and it does not mean that it cannot be used for other purposes. A public vote does not necessarily make it mandatory to keep it for slab leaks. My recollection is that the public vote was to keep it in the reserves for a period of time. Again, if my recollection is wrong, it is wrong. There may be some restrictions on the use of the money, but I do not recall any. The real issue is that it is part of our overall reserves, regardless of which account it is in.

There is no question that the Board is inviting legal action if it denies payment for a slab leak, regardless of the reason. I have personally filed legal actions against the Board on 4 different occasions over my 33 years here and prevailed on 3 of them based upon issues like this. I have on a number of occasions told Jerry Storage and the Board that the Board has no authority to pass rules that violate our CC&Rs.

Dave Grant

3/11/2022 06:31:22 am

Hello Craig,
It would appear, by your response to the blog, that you were around at the time of the award against the builder responsible for the defects we now refer to as "Slab Leaks"
Have you ever held a position on the Board? It would be really helpful to have your input if so. Anything you can impart will be a plus.

Regards,
Dave Grant

Michelle

3/26/2022 04:15:05 pm

We owe a debt of gratitude to Gail Wilson, a community advocate and this blog for the positive results achieved at the HOA meeting yesterday. Gail's efforts to highlight the inequity in the proposed changes to the slab leak rules is proof positive that our collective voices CAN influence DP policy. Thank you so very much, Gail.

My hope is that this blog will address the
"5 years in the the main' 5 million dollars in the baking" Landscape revitalization proposal that will be going out to a vote by all owners. After the Town Hall, it's important we all weigh in before this special assessment to repay a multi-million dollar loan to fund it is approved.

Leak Detection link

6/8/2022 07:12:46 am

Wow! This is a very interesting piece on slab leak protocol.

Your comment will be posted after it is approved.

Charter

This blog is designed as a means to provide transparency and informative access to the policies and protocols of the Desert Princess Palm Springs Homeowners Association, the governance of the HOA Board of Directors and the management of the community’s assets by The Management Trust. The expressed intent is to establish a neighborhood hub for trusted connections and the exchange of helpful information, goods, and services; it is hoped that homeowners will use it to build a stronger and safer Desert Princess Palm Springs.

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Proposed Updated Reactive Slab Leak Protocol

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